• leo



  • Unitarou


  • hit1205

    There's same problem in Japanese semi-voiced sound mark (" ", U+309C).

    And I found the full-width right bracket (" ", U+FF09) also be include in the new font, make it seems different as the left one (" ", U+FF08), it's weird.

    Maybe Discord include these characters for easter-egg use, but I think these characters should not affect the normal messages.

  • OnigiriAlga


  • Unitarou

    Fonts are created by type designers with care and balance. This change is an insult to the type designer.

  • うみちゃん

    As a Japanese speaker, I strongly protest this change to Japanese glyphs in the gg sans font.

    We understand that English speakers use "ツ" as a kind of emoticon. However, for us Japanese speakers, it is a very commonly used character. Imagine this. If we released a Cyrillic or Greek-like glyph for the letter A because Japanese speakers use it as part of their pictographs, we would consider it a shitty product, to put it mildly. That is how intolerable this change is for Japanese speakers.

    As many of you who use discord know, even text chat on one server can have a wide variety of languages. On some of the servers I participate in, users of diverse languages freely discuss each other (I volunteer as a localization expert on some of them). The world's languages are not only alphabetic. Don't forget to take into account languages that use multiple bytes and languages that use RTL.

    今回のgg sansフォントによる日本語グリフへの変更に、日本語話者として強く抗議します。




  • numpad0

    Bit tangential but for reading[0]:

    Japanese is just really, really hard for computers to deal with. The only reason I got parsing and word segmentation to be pretty good was because I was so familiar with the language and wrote a 3000 line post-processing function on the tokens to get reasonable results. We have a few similar post processing steps like one to better handle separated verbs in German but it’s nothing compared to what we needed for Japanese.

    Additionally Japanese kind of breaks our word model, despite being aware of it and planning for it from the start and every part of the app needs special logic to support Japanese properly.

    From [1] to illustrate severity of casually-dropped-fonts issue sadly still experienced to date by Japanese speakers(Han Unification must be undone imobtw):

    If someone gave you a link to this page, that person probably thinks your code displays Japanese wrong. In short, from a native Japanese eye, yѳur ҭєxҭ lѳѳκs κιnd ѳf lικє ҭЋιs. This page will give you a brief description of the glyph appearance problems that often arise with implementations of Asian text display, why it happens, why it’s a big deal, and how to fix it.


    0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33825879

    1: https://heistak.github.io/your-code-displays-japanese-wrong/

  • soya_daizu

    I'm seriously disappointed that the designers and developers at Discord simply took these characters as symbols that happen to be used in their funny emoticon and just "consumed," without caring about the accessibility of those who ACTUALLY use the characters. There's nothing wrong with these characters used for foreign emoticons, but changing the font itself to match those emoticons is disservice to the language.

    Even if they didn't include the ツ and ノ glyphs in the first place, there are already plenty of criticisms about the design and accessibility of the font. And to be honest, I think that they shouldn't have made this font at all if they can't spend enough resources to design a well-thought font for their corporate font.

    Making a font to match their company or brand is kind of a trend these days, but all others who do so are doing it with plenty of care and resources and support multiple languages, like IBM's Plex and LINE's Seed font.

    About the thread owner's suggestion, making a special option for switching between the glyphs are not really feasible and it also doesn't solve the problem because virtually all Japanese speakers have to look around for that option and turn off the switch.

    The possible solutions would be:

    1. To simply not pollute the notation system of a language just for a such very limited use case, which is, to remove the ツ and ノ glyphs from gg sans.
    2. To design all remaining katakana characters as well as hiragana and kanji characters if they're including ツ and ノ in the font






    1. そもそもこのような極めて限られたユースケースのためだけに、ある言語の表記体系を不必要に汚すような真似をしないこと、すなわちツやノのグリフをgg sansから削除すること
    2. ツやノのグリフをフォントに収録するのなら残りのカタカナとひらがなや漢字も専用にデザインしてフォントに収録すること


  • Unitarou

    > soya_daizu

    ありがとうございます :)

    私も感情的になりながら書いた後に色々と考えましたがgg sansから削除するのが最も現実的だと思いました

  • Jpanese

    *I don't speak English, so this is all machine translation.
     I'm sorry if my words sound dirty.

    I'm going out of my way to create this account and write here in my poor English to protest against this クソ改悪!
    What is Discord thinking? Why did they suddenly change one of the characters I use everyday into a weird emoji-like shape?
    Are there only people on the Discord development team who can't tell the difference between "シ" and "ツ"? Didn't they have someone who is familiar with the language to play with the foreign fonts?
    Think about that for a second! If we Japanese bend the T of the alphabet into a Y to use as an emoji, it would be weird for English speakers.
    くたばれクソ野郎! You're a cultural appropriator!

  • Jpanese

    Where in the menu do I manipulate it to get back to the original font?

    Somebody do something about it!

  • La

    gg sansの"ツ"は、汚らしく見えるというのも大きな理由の一つですが、それ以前に別の文字と誤解されかねない形になっていて、フォントとしての実用性がないという致命的な問題があります。"ツ"の消去を求めます。

    日本語には"シ"という文字もあり、これは"ツ"に似た形なものの全く別の意味や音を持ちます。ネイティブであれば本来この2つは容易に識別可能ですが、gg sansの"ツ"はしばしば"シ"と誤認してしまう形になっています。フォントを作る人はその言語の使われ方を十分に知っておく必要があると考えます。線の角度を維持してください。このままではチャットがしづらく不便です。


    One of the main reasons for the "ツ(tsu)" in gg sans is that it looks dirty, but before that, there is the fatal problem that it could be misunderstood as another character, making it impractical as a font." The "ツ"(tsu) needs to be removed.

    The Japanese language also has the character "シ(shi)," which is similar to "ツ(tsu)" but has a completely different meaning and sound. Although native speakers of Japanese can easily distinguish between the two, the "ツ(tsu)" in gg sans isoften misidentified as a "シ(shi)". I believe that the creator of the font needs to be fully aware of how the language is used. I'd like to see the line angles maintained. If this continues, communication will sow discord.

  • OnigiriAlga

    Thanks for flagging this. We removed those glyphs for now… should be back to normal for you after a restart.



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