Discord new TOS is racist

Comments

56 comments

  • Dzeno

    Couldn't agree more with @MooreMoDz
    Anyone that is truly against discrimination (which racism is 1 form of) would say that
    either everyone is allowed to use the word or no one.

    No it's not different, also none of the black people now where alive a 100 years ago (or at least not the ones using the word). Even if they were, if you limit who can use what words based on a discriminatory factor, such as skin colour then you're promoting discrimination instead of helping to get rid of it. Even if you have good intentions.

    There shouldn't be any difference in who is allowed what, for most things (Vetting is not discrimination, a fat person won't be allowed into the army. Clearly not discrimination but lacking the right skills/requirements. These are the kind of exceptions I mean when I said most things).

    Lastly how the hell do you expect discord to know what skin colour people have? You don't have to enter this info and if you did there would be people who would find it annoying and/or racist. Because why would they need that info?

    Resulting in the two options I mentioned that would be fair. Either no one can use the word or everyone. There's no way of policing and even if there was it would be discriminatory if some people were allowed to use it while others wouldn't. Policing everyone and every single message on intent is not realistic and not doable thus everyone or no-one.

    If you disagree then give a solid argument as to why. Something you belief or you feel aren't arguments, those are ideas and feelings.

    24
  • MooreMoDz

    I'm going to get my point across this and I want it to be clear.

     

    Imagine a Black person using the N-Word on both White and Black people, it seems normal. Now if a White person says the N-Word to a Black person that also says the N-Word, they find it offensive.

    I agree with Discord's rules. It doesn't matter what colour you are, you shouldn't be saying the N-Word, even if you're Black.

    If you have an issue with Discord keeping racism off their platform, you are part of the problem.

    22
  • Dzeno

    @Soviet seal
    Not everyone white person means it racist either. However as I said it's impossible to police all messages.

    I once said to a black friend when he ordered chicken for like the 100th time, "N and their chicken", not meant badly in anyway, I didn't even mean to use the word but it subconsciously was there because I have heard similar phrases enough times. That was a verbal slip up, however if I hadn't been good friends there's a high chance others would have thought it was racist.

    Point being policing properly is near impossible and even harder through text, as it has no intonation.

    Again I don't mind either way, but you have to accept that if some people can use it that everyone can use it.
    Every server still has it own admin(s) and maybe mods to enforce the rules of the server.

    In the end it's a choice,
    Either Discord doesn't do anything and let the owners of the servers solve it (would be fair as well) or discord puts some hard/fixed rules in place.

    Also I'm convinced that one part of the black community wants the N word to be banned, another part wants it to be allowed and another part doesn't care. So it's not like either you nor baby cheese are speaking/representing the entire community. The problem here is that there will always be someone complaining no matter what discord does with this. Ban the word some people will complain, unban/allow the word others will complain.

    Also check if this rule is in place for private groups ;)
    Usually if you make your own group you won't have to worry/care

    Also I suggest reading this article, it should help you understand a bit better how discord operates. https://www.pcgamer.com/how-private-is-your-private-discord-server/
    They're trying to do what they think will provide the best results.

    9
  • 𝚖𝚒𝚝𝚜𝚞𝚛𝚒

    I agree with @..., having black friends isn't an excuse to say the n-word, and it never will be an excuse.

    8
  • Dzeno

    @baby cheese could you link to the TOS page and copy-paste the line/phrase that actually says this?

    7
  • Dzeno

    @Minti

    You've clearly misunderstood and not properly read the comments, especially my own comment.
    "... either everyone is allowed to use the word or no one." (second phrase first paragraph can't be missed)

    That was my point/argument, if you want to use it go ahead, HOWEVER do not complain if someone else uses it and especially do not go complaining when someone doesn't get banned for it (I already explained why that's an unreasonable request for many reasons).

    Another important point, I asked the OP if they could link to this new rule.
    "@baby cheese could you link to the TOS page and copy-paste the line/phrase that actually says this?" 
    Because I couldn't find it, not saying the rule doesn't exist but at least I would like to see and read it in the actual TOS of discord.

    Lastly what gives you the right to speak and why should others shut up, everyone person regardless of their appearance has the right to make a comment/speak.

    So instead of calling others stupid, when you don't read everything properly yourself, why do you not first post the exact rule from the discord TOS and a link to it?
    Secondly I don't see anything stupid about saying either everyone can use the word or no-one can. I don't mind if you do but keep in mind the more you use it the more the word will persist and the more others will use it (basic human psychology, sociology and language).
    I have never heard a sound argument why it would not be racist if only a subset of the population is allowed to use a word, based on birth-determined features.
    Be my guest and try to give a sound argument based on logical reasoning (I don't care how you feel about it or any of that stuff, too often I hear people say things like, "because that is right" or "because that is how I feel it is", those are not arguments just them claiming they're right without reason).


    TL;DR;
    Please first show the exact rule in the TOS of discord (haven't seen it yet).
    Either everyone can use the word or no-one.

    7
  • Dzeno

    @Baby Cheese, again I don't have a problem with that.
    My argument has always been everyone or no-one.
    I also agree that people get offended too easily nowadays just by words that they associate negative meaning to.
    However if you clearly say something is stupid then I do find that either ignorant or offensive (especially when you do not explain why).

    Nonetheless, I HAVE STILL NOT SEEN THE LINE IN THE TOS OF DISCORD that bans specific words including the specific n word talked about here. I've asked it a few times and I have yet to see someone copy-paste the exact phrase from the TOS nor have I see anyone link to it (or the section where it says so).

    So instead of continuing this discussion why do YOU not first show that this rule is actually in the TOS, I wasn't able to find it (might have missed it). However since you made this post you should definitely have seen it and know where it is.
    If that line is not there then this whole discussion doesn't matter. Keep in mind a person banning you from their server is not Discord but the owner/admin/mod of that server. 


    Also something that annoys me a lot is the pot calling the kettle black, in other words people that are hypocrite (knowingly or unknowingly). So anyone that has a problem with racism (which I think is most people) should make sure they don't make the mistake of themselves doing something discriminatory (racism is a sub-category of discrimination).

    7
  • Optiimum™

    Okay,

    I think that users who use racial slurs (with a "hard R" or not) should be given a WARNING. They could get suspended for a while if they continue. Ban as a last resort. I'm against racial slurs, but it would kill Discord. Tons of people find it offensive, including me. If you are black or white - it still can be seen as racism.

     

    To sum it up: Racial slur = warning. If they keep on saying it = account suspension. Ban as a last resort. 

     

    This is a good compromise, no? If they quickly ban, it'll wipe many servers. If they don't do anything, racism won't be good. 

     

    EDIT:

    Also, Baby Cheese. If you don't have a problem with racial slurs and use "freedom of speech", you are part of the problem. And to be honest, people who use the "freedom of speech" card just need an excuse for breaking the Discord ToS.

    7
  • Dzeno

    @Zonin

    I've mentioned this before, people just have different opinions about this (regardless of skin colour). That will unfortunately probably always be the case.

    I agree people should stop arguing about this.
    My arguments is simple, no one has posted or shown yet that this rule is actually is in the TOS of Discord. After so much time and so many posts I really am starting to think this rule doesn't even exist. I think baby cheese got confused with some other rule or a server rule.

    THIS DISCUSSION IS POINTLESS UNTIL SOMEONE SHOWS THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY IN THE TOS OF DISCORD.

    7
  • AdriannaR

    How will they know that when the n word is being used by 95% of Discord users, and as I read above it’s not always aiming it towards others, it can be said in general. Discord would have to terminate 95% of all the Discord users because of it, leaving Discord with hardly any users left. Dark skinned people say it, and some I know don’t mind it and they say it too. How can you punish every Discord member for saying it when Discord would have to watch every conversation in every channel and every server 24/7, to “catch” people saying the n word even once and get the instant termination punishment. I refuse to say it and don’t like that word at all, mostly because I have mix members in my family, and I’m not disrespectful like most people are. I’m one who stands up for people and all differences, and help when I can that’s following the rules and help those who are being honest yet get hurt anyway.

    5
  • Baby Cheese

    Everyone should be able to say it, words are words, stop being so offended by everything, freedom of speech, simple as that.

    5
  • sears 𝄞

    @cheruriibee Exactly

    5
  • Dzeno

    @minti,
    You were speaking to me as you addressed my comment. You said my comment is stupid, implying that I'm either stupid, ignorant or whatever reason there could be to write something stupid. Especially since you just said the comment is stupid without reason.
    The comment which main message is:
    "Either no one can use the word or everyone."
    That phrase is in there multiple times.
    Then you say, yes mostly white people say it and saying that is stupid (no arguments or anything).

    And yes telling someone to be quiet is the same as telling someone not to speak.
    "To make it short: Be quiet, it's not that deep."
    Might be more polite but the message is still the same. ESPECIALLY saying that if you're not black you can not respond here is a form of discrimination, called racism. I've always learned if you do not want something to happen to you then definitely do not do it to others.

    It's also not your decision to make.
    The only "people" that can actually make the decision is Discord.

    Lastly STILL HAVE NOT SEEN THE RULE IN THE TOS NOR A LINK TO IT. (I have searched for the n word and it isn't explicitly written in their online TOS)

    4
  • sears 𝄞

    So you're saying since I'm black the white friends I have can say the n word? Makes total sense. Dumbass.

    4
  • ZØNIN©

    Good point.  Can somebody pull the ToS for us?

    2
  • sears 𝄞

    @ArcadeAlchemist that's bullshit. I've been called the hard r on discord and the person who called me that was white and I'm black and find it offensive and he's still on Discord. Obviously the "freedom of speech" isn't enforced.

    2
  • sears 𝄞

    @[JAC]Jesus I'm not a "descendant" My mom is Nigerian. And so are her parents and so on.

    2
  • 𝙹𝚞𝚗𝚘🦋

    Dzeno just cuz someone calls yo comment stupid does not mean that they are callin you as a person stupid smh thats common sense

    2
  • [Academy City] Touma

    Its really not about people wanting to use the word. The issue with everybody here is that all of you people getting mad about the word refuse to acknowledge that there are plenty of people that don't use the word as a slur and are advocating for having people get banned for it. Alot of people that don't use it as a slur are also black. So what your advocating for will literally get a ton of black people banned despite them not being racist. I don't know why thats so hard for you people to understand. The fact that you people refuse to even acknowledge that the word is NOT always used as a slur is inherently harmful to the discorse involving this subject. You people sit on your high horses and pretend that black people that use the word as a greeting are somehow equivalent to a racist using a slur. When you refuse to acknowledge that there is in fact a difference you literally do harm to the world. You enable racism. You give racists cover by comparing people that aren't racists to racists. Every single mf i responded to in this threat said back at me "Oh i never said the word is only a slur" despite the fact that you only started acknowledging that AFTER i called you out for it. @cherubii you were never arguing context matters until after i said something about it. Even when others argued context matters you just shot it down with "Why be racist my dude". Literally just about every person in this thread has some of the worst takes on this i've ever seen. I haven't even gotten to calling out the really stupid stuff like the original poster and some of the other very harmful takes is because some of you want to pretend context doesn't matter and that people are just being racist even when they are not.

    2
  • giraffe

    the white kids trying to use an N word pass lol


    2
  • jae 🥥

    okay, how about we let a person whos actually black speak about this, and lets see what their opinion is.
    the funny part is that nonblack people are agreeing and saying "yeah yeah yeah!!" when you they arent even black, thats sad.


    2
  • PiggasinNaris

    As a Black/Asian person, I honestly think discord pulled a bad one on this. 

    1
  • USMARINE_C0RPS

    I kind of hate to say it, but I support the ToS on removing anyone that uses the slang, it shouldn't matter regardless of what your skin color is the word shouldn't be used at all considering we have underaged kids under the age of 18 we don't need them to start using the slang.

    1
  • Dankward Tortellini

    It's actually not a targeted attack or anything, it's because me and my friends say the n word (hard R) 13 million times with bots. (and also Discord has lots of white supremacy and racism)

    It is annoying to see white supremacy stay around on Discord as long as it does, hopefully we can overcome this problem. This is certainly not a racist move by Discord or anything like that.

    1
  • LoginHvH

    bro I just wanna know if I can say the n word

    1
  • dimeji

    A black person should be able to say the n word to another person dont tell a black person not to say the n word you sound ignorant

    1
  • Bass

    I'm just curious about the logistics if the proposed: "nonblack people cant say the nword, black people can"
    Somebody says the N word. Many ppl report it. How then does discord decide if they are black or not?
    Have every black person register with Discord as Black? How is this even determined?
    Have a corporate committee on blackness?
    Send an admin a photo and let them decide?
    What about mixed? Can they say it? Or is there some threshold? 50%? 25%. Again, how is this judged?
    What if your spouse is Black? Is that suffient to be able to say it?
    How do you prevent fake black IDs? Would it be acceptable to let a few racists use it if they get fake ids? What about blacks that say ut as a slur? Do they lose their black card?
    Would it truly benefit a community to let a corporation determine their membership?
    Maybe determine not by the speaker, but by the context? Greetings would be ok. Slurs would be an issue. But only Blacks can use it as a greeting, so back to proving your black identity.
    At least with an all or none policy it is enforceable.
    If you could decide to let everyone say it freely, or ban it completely, which would you choose? Where is the potential for harm the greatest?

    1
  • Connor

    hi, freedom of speech isnt freedom of punishment from said speech, and discord tos is here: https://discord.com/new/terms

     

    i couldnt find anywhere in the tos where it specifically outlined where it was banned but i got this:

    "These rules of use are not meant to be exhaustive, and we reserve the right to determine what conduct we consider to be a violation of the Terms, Community Guidelines or improper use of the Service and to take action including termination of your Account and exclusion from further participation in the Service."

    in the community guidelines, https://discord.com/new/guidelines, however,

    still no mention of it, so it's a bit of a grey area

    0
  • YouthTeenager

    Despite the fact that the historical meaning of it historically? You're gonna call them racist? White people were proven to have made the word, why do you get to say it and not us? That's what I don't understand. If you can say it to us, isn't that inequality, which is what you're aiming against??

    0
  • [JAC]Jesus

    https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360069221871/comments/1500000285921

    @... you suggest that there is a difference between freedom of speech and hate speach i have aldeady shown that to be false (see US supreme court ruling R A V vs City of St Paul) Were speech that is spreading hate is allowed. However as has been in US law since the start Speech that directs violence or other actions of harm are not protected. Discord is a US based company (Protected by article 230) they are not seen as a publisher so discord will not be held responsible for anything someone says. When social media company's do ban people for saying something such as "All blacks are criminals" that is not within there power to do so says the same article that protects them. Countless death threats go out every day and do nothing about any day you can log onto to twitter and find thousands of death threats and are illegal and twitter does nothing about. the issue that people are concerned with is selective enforcement.

    0

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